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t.n: the post is very long, we will paraphrase
First of all, I'm not an Army nor an anti. I'm a Korean Canadian.
The Jim Jones' sample that appeared in Suga's "What Do You Think" is from one of the biggest pseudo-religion sect leaders that all North America is aware of. It's like how Koreans all know Lee Man Hee (founder of Shincheonji church), everyone in N.A. knows about Jim Jones.
I learned about this person and his incident at school.
ㄴIf you search up for Jim Jones or Jones Town on Google or Naver, you'll be able to find all the atrocities he's committed. If you know nothing about this person, I suggest that you learn about him.. He's seriously not even human
ㄴI can't tell if Suga knew who Jim Jones is when using the sample, but he's registered as the producer, so just the fact of writing these lyrics is problematic.
ㄴAnyone listening to the song would get the sermon/speech vibes, but there are fans around the world and domestically who are listening to his song. If he hasn't think about the potential influence he could've had on them, I have nothing to say.
ㄴI looked it up and I saw that international fans already saw a documentary of him last September in the hotel scene where he was making the song. At that time, fans all praised him saying "How could he come up with this way to use the sermon? He's really a genius" "he's so hip and cool". Damn...
Now that the song has been released, just listening to the voice, you can tell that it's from Jim Jones.
ㄴIt's already disappointing and it's pissing me off that he used Jim Jones' sermon as a sample. But currently, there's a case with the US police (if you don't know, look it up) with black people's human rights that is angering and saddening people right now. For the people who are wondering what's the relationship with this and the other situation:
ㄴ70% of the believers who died in the mass suicide of Jim Jones were black people. Most of them were women and children. Jim Jones made this believers believe that he would bring a better life to black people and after the slaughter, he killed himself (this is a huge overview of the event, I'm worried about giving you the real event which is even more horrible)
ㄴAnyways, this happened in the US and he's using Jim Jones sample is obviously problematic. This isn't about attacking Suga maliciously and gathering the antis. His own fans have been disappointed and are criticizing this situation, so you guys realize that this is an actual issue?
ㄴSome fans are claiming that it's common to use samples for diss tracks, but first of all, this is not it. It's not a common thing to do and using a sampled sermon in a diss track is just dumbfounding. The people who are claiming this are probably insane. These people deserve as much criticism as Suga and the producers who participated in this song, they're one and the same
ㄴAnd just because it's common doesn't mean that it makes it any better. Whether Suga and the producers knew or not, they're the same as the people who previously used Jim Jones' sample as "art". Stop shielding them.
ㄴIf you listen to the song, this is just a song about flexing, so why is there a need to use a sermon? I don't see the relevancy at all, and if it was relevant, please let me know. If it's not relevant, it's okay to just say that he used it to look cool too
ㄴI didn't write this in order to drag this issue into a thread, but I want Koreans to know how severe this situation is. [...] And I'm saying it once again, I'm not a fan nor an anti. I'm just someone who knows a bit about this situation
[...]
ㄴPeople keep telling me that this isn't a song about flexing, so I'll take that. I'm not writing this post because the flexing part is important. If this isn't a song about flexing, it's my mistake for misunderstanding it. But it's not like he didn't use the sample.
[...]
learn more about Jim Jones here
post response:
[+855][-107]
original post: here
1. [+429, -23]
No but why are people calling this a troll post?
2. [+419, -24]
People are saying that a lot of rappers used it already, what are you sayingㅋㅋ Even though this was used as quotations, the lyrics are still worth criticizing. No one has ever used a sermon to diss their haters, to be honest, he's the first one who has used his voice like thatㅋㅋㅋㅋ And just look at the content in the lyrics, do you think he's in his right mind to use a pseudo religious cult leader who killed over 900 people in order to draw reference to hating his antis?ㄷㄷ
3. [+414, -24]
So there are still kids thinking that this is a troll post.. You guys are indeed just a bunch of chodings? If you were to compare with our country, it would be Lee Manhee, and for Japan, Aum Shinrikyo
4. [+260, -3]
Imagine Eminem or Kanye West using Chun Doohwan's (de facto leader during Gwangju massacre) of voice when he was blaming the people of Gwangju for their uprising in their songs' introduction and goes "shot shot shot f*cker f*cker f*cker" everyone would be hating on them. Imagine them saying stuff like "I have a lot of money and my wife is Kim Kardashian are you jealous? "I have a 30 billion dollars worth of mansion, are you jealous?" would you guys like that? This is the same thing, but you guys just don't want to understandㅋㅋㅋ
5. [+226, -1]
Right now the foreigners who are living in the countries mentioned are all criticizing this situation, so you think that it's okay for Koreans, who know nothing about the situation, to shield him? What's the difference between the sensitive bugs from Japan who are looking at our country? (t/n: implying Japanese will try to defend themselves without knowing the whole situation)
6. [+217, -5]
ㅋㅋ Do you really think that people couldn't understand Suga's intentions behind his songs and that anyone could tell he's criticizing the situation when listening to the song? Of course not.. He used this incident giving an iconic meaning to it, and this is already problematic to start with..
7. [+197, -21]
He got caught in his own trap
[enter-talk] WHAT DID SUGA THINK TO DO SOMETHING THIS STUPID?
Even the I-roaches aren't shielding him on this one, and asking him to apologize. To be honest, isn't this impossible to shield?
This is the same as using Chun Doohwan in a song
post response:
[+419][-97]
original post: here
1. [+176, -15]
Any other singers would've been bashed by the general public, but why aren't we even able to guess his intentions behind the song?ㅋㅋㅋ What an amazing artist
2. [+130, -14]
So he used a mass murderer to criticize his haters? Can you use such a traumatic event that lightly? And the Army are saying that he's using this to show it's rubbish? So why did he think it was cool to do it?
"I'm going crazyㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ "Drinking the kool aid" is an expression that originates from the Jim Jones' pseudo religious believers drinking poisoned kool-aid and committing mass suicide. It's the same meaning as "Many people will like or blindly indulge into faith blindly" ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ
ㄴTaking the speech of that pseudo-religion's leader murderer and using it in his beat is just driving me crazy
3. [+110, -7]
No but why are people calling this a troll post? Why are people shielding this?
4. [+81, -35]
If someone was to repeat their own controversies, it has to be Bangtan..
5. [+77, -10]
Bangtan and Army just look like a cult themselves.. If their bias makes a mistake, they're going to rush into making PDFs, they're always burying everything down everyday
6. [+67, -2]
Those famous BTS I-roaches aren't even shielding them, so you know for sure that this is a f*cking problemㅋㅋ
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